一個肥皂箱，就能站上去評論政事，沒有權力地位高低的差別。那麼可不可以一個咖啡桌，可以把建築界的重量級，就拿來品頭論足一番？而且這回是學生評老師的作品？

在交大建研所副教授張基義的登高一呼，就促成了這次學生們、EGG編輯群與黃聲遠、邱文傑的對話，在張基義眼裡，黃聲遠和邱文傑是他認為現階段有機會推上世界級的戰場，並可以與之比劃筆劃的兩位台灣建築師，而學生們如何去對比兩位建築師的作品，並與世界的現代建築作品對焦，是其中有趣之處。在張基義穿針引線討論過程中，學生們神來的譬喻，以及兩位建築師對話中的字字珠璣、妙語連環，都惹得全場大家笑聲連連。

台灣的建築評論平台，可以輕鬆，可以直接，也可以更嚴厲一點，期待變成一種更為開放的風潮，未來蛋族們下午茶，將不定期提供這些犀利的觀點，沒有對錯，只有大聲說出來啦！

If a political discourse can be staged on top of something as simple as a soapbox, can we similarly pit architecture masters in a debate over a simple coffee table? And rather than your run-of-the-mill dialogue, invite students to critique them instead?

At the call of Chiao Tung University assistant professor Chi-Yi Chang, Egg organized just such a roundtable, pitting architects Sheng-yuan Hwang and Jay Chiu against the students of Chang. To Chang, the two aforementioned architects represent two of the most talented and therefore marketable architects in Taiwan; the students, on the other hand, were included to inject a fresh perspective on the discourse. 

Can architectural debates in Taiwan be relaxed, direct, yet piercing all at the same time? With this event Egg hopes to show that this is indeed possible, and hopes to inspire similar shout-outs in the future!

黃聲遠 邱文傑 比一比

黃聲遠

◇ 1986年畢業於東海大學建築系

     1991年耶魯大學建築碩士

◇ 成立事務所 11年

◇ 事務所規模 約25人

◇ 作品集中在宜蘭

◇ 得獎紀錄

2005  遠東傑出建築獎—宜蘭河畔舊城生活廊帶

2004  臺灣建築獎—宜蘭河畔舊城生活廊帶

2002  台灣建築獎—礁溪鄉公所增建／連接新舊省道的廣場、林園／楓香大道

2001  台灣建築獎—宜蘭西堤社福館及屋橋

1999  遠東傑出建築獎—三星鄉公所廣場增建展演設施（蔥蒜棚）／礁溪竹林養護院／礁溪林宅

1999  台灣建築獎—礁溪竹林養護院

Sheng-yuan Hwang

* Education: 1986 - Bach. Architecture / 

  Tunghai University

  1991 - M. Architecture / Yale

* Established his own studio for 11 years

* Size of studio: approximately 25-strong

* Projects are concentrated in I-Lan

* Honors:

[1999] - Chou-Lin Nursing Home, Taiwan Architectural Award

[1999] - San-Hsing Town Hall Extension for the Performing Arts, Far Eastern Architectural Design Award 

[2001] - I-Lan County Government Social Welfare Center, Taiwan Architectural Award

[2002] - Chiao-Hsi Town Hall Extension, Taiwan Architectural Award

[2004] - Revitalization of the I-Lan Riverbank, Far Eastern Architectural Design Award 

[2005] - Revitalization of the I-Lan Riverbank, Taiwan Architecture Award

邱文傑

◇ 1985年畢業於淡江大學建築系

    1990年哈佛大學建築暨都市設計碩士

◇ 成立事務所 10年

◇ 事務所規模 約20人

◇ 作品遍布全台

◇ 得獎紀錄

2004 台灣建築獎-921地震博物館

2001 遠東建築獎-新竹青少年福利中心（入圍）

2000 921校園重建設計建築獎-中峰國小

2000 台灣建築獎-新竹之心

2000 遠東建築獎-新竹之心

Jay Chiu

* Education: 1985 - Bach. Architecture /   

  Tamkang University

  1990 - M. Architecture / Harvard

* Established his own studio for 10 years

* Size of studio: approximately 20-strong

* Projects are spread throughout Taiwan

* Honors:

[2000] - 921 Chung Feng Primary School , Far Eastern Architectural Design Award 

[2000] - Heart of Hsinchu, Taiwan Architectural Award

[2000] - Heart of Hsinchu,Far Eastern Architectural Design Award 

[2001] - Hsinchu Youth Center (Nominated), Far Eastern Architectural Design Award 

[2004] - 921 Earthquake Museum, Taiwan Architecture Award

【我們（交大建研所研一學生）怎麼看黃聲遠與邱文傑？】

邱文傑曾給交大建研所研一的學生上了六堂課，而黃聲遠則帶了這些學生到宜蘭3天實地去參觀、說明個案的概念、發展與執行。學生們分別針對黃聲遠與邱文傑在建築議題與執行上的同異性，進而導入當代建築的相關議題討論。瞧瞧他們說了些什麼？

The Students Speak

Having had six classes under Jay Chiu and a class trip to I-Lan led by Sheng-yuan Hwang, the students discuss both similarities and differences between the two architects. Though the revolution might not be televised, we're hoping instead that pen on paper would do:

虛線與實線

以線為出發點，線是概念是線索，也是都市的軸線或動線，這些都是黃聲遠與邱文傑建築師相對突出的特點。黃聲遠長時間整合連接都市空間，由點串成線，形成優質生活面，那種邊界的模糊，會讓人不知不覺走進建築裡；邱文傑則是著重舊有紋理和記憶的連接，順著剩餘的痕跡找回都市原有的軸向，強調建構或概念的精準。

如果以線來表現這兩位建築師的風格，黃聲遠是一條斷斷續續有著不規則高低起伏的虛線，讓人們在其中停留。邱文傑則是一條滑順平穩的實線，人們要走完之後，再回頭細細品味。（劉塗中）

Line Art

The line—whether it be concept or inspiration, axis or movement—is a recurring theme in both Hwang and Chiu's work. Hwang attempts to link various urban spaces in a connect-the-dot fashion, the result allowing pedestrians to experience and enter architecture without being consciously aware of crossing any boundaries; Chiu, on the other hand, focuses on linking existing urban fabrics and memories.

If we attempt to conceptualize both architects with the idea of the line, Hwang can best be characterized as a sporadic one, varied in height and allowing people to enter and occupy at will. Chiu's line would be the opposite: smooth and stable, it demands finishing the length of the line in order for one to appreciate its meaning.

涵構主義

舉Le Corbusier的“Visual Arts Center”一案與James Sterling的“Stuttgart State Gallery”為例，以一穿越性的動線創造新的場所，或讓學生駐足，或讓民眾步行其中；而同樣的，我們也可以看到黃聲遠在社福大樓打開中庭，並延伸社區的歷史紋理與動線；邱文傑則在921地震博物館開啟一條貫穿館區的動線。四個建築師、四個個案，都是同一個態度：面對設計議題時，將環境涵構（context）放在第一位。

行走如山谷 舉頭如森林的地景式建築

黃聲遠的個案，遠看似乎是張揚五爪，然而卻是在時間中尋找空間的可能性，像他案子外牆刻意與週遭鄰里的環境呼應，不刻意塑型。

用建築的針 暗藏於大地的線 縫合裂縫

而邱文傑認為現代的建築在國際樣式中更靠近大地，跟大地作更緊密的結合。（劉宛育、邵唯晏）

Contextlism

Le Corbusier's Visual Art Center and James Sterling's Stuttgart State Gallery are both created from a single line of movement, their spaces allowing for both movement and stasis. Similarly, Hwang in his Social Welfare Center chose to open up the central courtyard, thus extending the existing community fabric. A similar concept carries Chiu's 921 Earthquake Museum, where a single line of movement cuts through the site in its entirety. Four different architects, four different projects, one identical attitude—faced with design challenges, all four placed primary emphasis on context.

Architecture of the Land

Though seemingly exaggerated, Hwang's project reveals a remarkable sensitivity to site: the building's exterior walls are a direct reaction to the surrounding environment, with forms derived directly from local context. 

Architecture as an Act of Linkage

In a similar vein of logic, Chiu believes that buildings should be constructed close to the land; architecture, in this case, should be thought of as the act of stitching together the artificial and the natural.

演繹時尚與重述在地

以伊東豐雄所做的Tod's旗艦店和黃聲遠所做的宜蘭     

銅森林為例，同樣以樹型為概念的發想，手法卻大不相同—    銅森林是“誇飾”，Tod's旗艦店則是“隱喻”； Tod's是具象的建築，丟丟銅森林比較像公共裝置藝術。伊東豐雄的活力來自於年輕一代的潮流及時尚，黃聲遠的活力則來自於當地—他看宜蘭這個城市的方法。（李蕙如、徐芳怡）

Interpretation of Fashion vs. Local Context

Tod's flagship store by Toyo Ito and Hwang's Diu Diu Tang Covered Walkway are both projects based on the concept of trees, though the way with which the same concept has been transformed to reality differs widely. While Tod's acts more as metaphor, Hwang's equivalent functions more as an exaggerated form of ornamentation—think public installation art. On a baser level, Ito's building draws roots from the fashion and trends of a younger generation, while Hwang's project derives inspiration from the local context and his view on I-Lan.

默默耕耘的牛與一顆炸彈 

比較起來，兩位建築師，一個是顯性，一個則是隱性去改變都市。邱文傑的作品，喜歡利用輕構架，非常有張力，像炸彈一樣，利用建築去改變都市綠帶；而黃聲遠則像默默耕耘的牛，在宜蘭慢慢經營，由內而外，令人慢慢去體會那發散的光芒。（蔡家豪）

The Ox and the Bomb

Compared with each other, the two architects can best be described as the covert—Chiu—and the overt—Hwang. Chiu's projects, commonly constructed of lightweight framing, have the metaphorical force and tensity of a bomb. Hwang, on the other hand, resembles a humble ox tilling the fields of I-Lan; only slowly—almost imperceptibly—do we realize the change he's effecting.

百廢待舉與積習難改

縫合、連結與中介

邱文傑的921地震博物館，可以看到他如何用一針一線把破裂的土地給縫合起來，把地震過後的破碎，縫合連結造成一種新的秩序；新竹之心也是在新舊之間，企圖連接都市的軸向，轉化成可以親近的空間。在一切的百廢待舉中，縫合連結的改造。

反省、改造與參與

雖然九二一不是發生在宜蘭，但是黃聲遠礁溪戶政事務所個案四處歪斜，頗有地震過後的建築景象，可以看到黃聲遠以一種爆炸性的建築手法去改變地震發生之前積習難改的空間習慣，用參與反省改造的手法去對待他的空間作品。（鍾昀青）

Stitching, Connecting, and Mediating

In Chiu's 921 Earthquake Museum we see him quite literally stitching together the ruptured land. Similarly, Heart of Hsinchu can be perceived as a stitch between old and new, the result an attempt at transforming what was once derelict to what is now people-friendly.  

Introspection, Transformation, and Participation

Though the 921 earthquake did not happen in I-Lan, the canted walls of Hwang's Chiao Hsi Household Registration Office resembles its aftermath. The resulting forms can be seen as rumination over the arrogance of our right angles; faced with the forces of nature, man's creation cannot be but toppled and destroyed.

我們（黃聲遠、邱文傑）的心聲

黃聲遠和邱文傑兩人是台灣中生代建築師中的佼佼者，同樣受美國教育現代建築思潮的衝擊，也幾乎在差不多的時間，回到台灣成立自己的事務所，多年來征戰的經驗，也看到他們的成績，這五年來，他們倆都是台灣各建築獎項的常勝軍，而這樣一路走來，從事建築業、經營事務所，又有什麼心酸不為人知呢？

在張基義、建研所學生及EGG的問題下，且聽他們分享！

From the Architects

Gifted sons of Taiwan, Hwang and Chiu represent two parallel lines in both career and talent. Both having been US-educated and both having established their studio at around the same time, the two architects have seen their careers rise in tandem with the country's architectural environment. Behind the numerous prizes awarded over the past five years however, what stories lie untold? What are their own takes on being an architect and operating their own studios?

這個環境讓我們不太想蓋房子

邱文傑  這個環境讓我們不太想蓋房子，台灣環境還不夠混亂嗎？真的蓋幾棟偉大的房子就會怎樣嗎？還是說蓋一座像Frank Gary那樣的畢爾包美術館嗎？（恐怕沒那麼行，整個國家也沒法支持）但身為建築師又不能不蓋，又想要蓋得不錯，不會跟環境造成太大的衝突，我會偏好與地景結合的建築型態，而我嘗試的棚架可以跟整個台灣的招牌文化結合，即使這麼努力地小心翼翼，更可怕的是，竟然蔡同學還覺得我是炸彈（大笑）！

整個意識形態上，我認為台灣是不應該再蓋房子了，應該去搞下水道，這是我的良心話，應該是遠見喔！

黃聲遠 我覺得目前全世界都在做差不多的事，好像已經是普世價值，事實上，我最近還在想，未來5、6年內，我應該不會有新建築個案發表，因為我們事務所正在規劃跟河流、河堤有關的案子，例如關於河水衝到河道上，自然形成地形的變動公園等等，跟邱文傑說的搞下水道，大概有點類似的意思。

我們會感到的力不從心

邱文傑  以前事務所規模小的時候，可以跟員工一起旅遊，還能到玫瑰園、耕讀園聊天，我多愛啊！不知道有多久沒跟公司同事吃午飯了，這真是不可思議。建築不是只有這樣可以運作下去，我現在實在太忙了，很希望可以回到過去那個狀態。這可能是我們這種型態的事務所要小心的，大到一個程度，我們還在懷念小事務所那種美好。

講到工程品質，我想難免都會遇到工程出狀況的例子，基本上我是相信施工品質的，如果一棟房子都蓋不好，還談什麼設計，可是就連建築大師柯布也蓋過有漏水的房子，這問題怎麼辦？大概就是人生吧！有些問題很痛很深，都會讓你記得的，有機會一定要做好，要不然呢？自己都會生氣耶，房子都蓋不好作什麼建築師，根本沒能力作什麼設計，那種心理衝突是很大的惡性循環。

黃聲遠  我發現隨著時間、年紀，認識越來越多的人，也做著越來越多的事情，然後也發現沒有一個放得掉，老覺得時間越來越不夠分配，這一直困擾我。有時候看著眼前這個人，為何現在無法好好跟他講話，以前我常常可以跟他天南地北聊天的，我很焦慮這些事。

而至於施工品質，到底是偶爾發生的意外，還是你持續對施工品質不關切，這件事就有點嚴重了，有時候你一時無法解決，那才真正的難過。然而，業主是可以這樣要求你的，你責無旁貸，而若這又牽涉到調整整個事務所的狀態，卻又是一件大事，很複雜的心情啦！

我們做設計時，思考現代性與本土的配比？

邱文傑  我生活在這裡這麼多年，怎麼比得上在國外受現代建築教育的兩年呢？可是很奇怪，在我個案設計的建築配比上卻如此不均勻。台灣的大街小巷，無論高級、低級或台客的那些情感我一定有，台灣的違章建築、霓虹燈、檳榔西施啊⋯⋯這些東西我都很愛，只是如何沉澱、化作現代主義的一環，我才願意出招，如果我現在沒辦法轉譯那些在地的語言，我就不會用在建築上。

像台東舊站的那些霓虹燈管，是三條平行線，而不是隨意被擺放，這種事一定要回到現代建築被過濾。這樣的認知在我們事務所是重要的，我絕對不會縱容，在符合現代主義前提下，才可以做，我會做這樣的控制，「身處於後現代多元的洪流中，骨子裡流著現代主義的熱血。」我在現階段還蠻堅持的。

黃聲遠  事務所的人基本上都來自台灣各地，少有出生在宜蘭的，我有點想要藉重事務所那種多樣性去產生效果，因此現代或本土的配比，不會是我想事情的選項，這類風格性的問題，原則上我是不處理的。我個人不認為我在作地域建築，是不是很宜蘭，從來都沒這個念頭，我想我們那一屋子的人都沒有這樣思考過。

對於身處環境的地域元素，也因為整個事務所都是外來的人，基本上都會用一種欣賞的態度，帶上歡樂的眼光，有點距離的看，有點像去旅行，看什麼都好，真實想起來都是這樣。我也會很期待我同事會給我的那一點點驚喜，為了等那一點點可以等很久，可以容忍很多事。後來發現，原來經營事務所，練了那麼多年，是在練耐心，在等待。

This Environment Precludes Building Houses

Chiu  Isn't our larger environment chaotic enough already? Is the building of a few iconic buildings enough to change it? Or are we to build another Bilbao? Though our larger environment precludes building buildings, as an architect we cannot do any otherwise. At the same time, there is the added challenge of building not only projects of quality, but also of minimal impact to the environment. The reason I started building sheds was precisely to pursue architecture that engages the land, while the form itself is very typically Taiwanese.

On an ideological level, I don't think Taiwan should be build any more buildings. Underground water pipes, however, that's my suggestion!

Hwang  I think that the whole world is pretty much doing the same thing these days; values have been globalized just as much as commerce. On a personal note, you probably won't be seeing any new buildings from me. My studio is in the middle of several projects dealing with rivers, riverbanks, and the architectural products of stream flows-projects that probably echo Chiu's idea of building water pipes

The Spirit is Willing, But the Flesh is Not

Chiu: When the studio was small, I could go out on trips and picnics with the entire company. Now that we've expanded however, God knows how long it's been since I even lunched with them; we're definitely missing the “good old days” of when we were smaller. 

In terms of construction woes, I'm sure that problems are inevitable and will crop up every now and then. On a very basic level however, I believe inordinately in the importance of construction quality; simply put, how can you even talk about design when you can't properly build a building? On the other hand however, even le Corbusier managed to build leaky buildings. Trying to both design well and accept Murphy's Law-now that's a harsh challenge.

Hwang  As time passes and age creeps up on me, I find myself knowing more people and doing more things. In the end, however, I realize alarmingly that I can't put anything down anymore. As cliché as it may be, the time I have is never enough. Whereas I could chat for hours before with friends, these days I can't even have a proper conversation anymore; this I worry about.

In regards to construction quality, the question is whether a problem arises out of unforeseeable accidents or sustained negligence. Though there might be nothing you can do about a mistake made by someone else, at the client's request you can still be held responsible…it's a mess both logistically and emotionally! 

Balancing West and East 

Chiu  How can my measly two years abroad compare to the decades I've spent here? Amazingly enough however, I do recognize a relative absence of overt Taiwanese influences in my projects. The streets of Taipei°Xwith its illegal buildings, neon signs, and betel nut stands°Xare something I hold dear to my heart. Without a way to fold these into my lexicon of modernism however, I will not try and forcibly incorporate them into my designs.

For example, the fluorescent tubes of the Taitung old station form three horizontal lines and are not, as it might seem at first glance, accidentally placed; all these need to be understood through a modernist lens. I will only allow for ideas adhering to my modernist principles°Xthis I stand strongly by. 

Hwang  Given that most everyone at the studio hail not from I-Lan but from elsewhere, I would actually like to leverage the studio's diverse strengths in producing design solutions. Stylistic questions such as whether our designs are “local” enough are moot; I never question whether our proposals are “I-Lan” enough.

Because nobody is from I-Lan, I think that everyone at the studio harbors a slightly touristy view on things-a view that is at once admiring, joyful, yet distanced. At the same time however, I work hoping that my colleagues can surprise me°Xit is for this that I have tolerated as much as I did in the studio. After so many years, I have come to realize that operating a studio is an exercise in patience, an exercise in waiting.

文字/林美慧 人像攝影/洪博東  圖片、資料提供/大涵學乙、田中央及黃聲遠、交大建研所研一學生